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	<title>Comments on: Depression as Passion: Easter Cont&#8217;d</title>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://waynepark.com/2010/04/11/depression-as-passion-easter-contd/comment-page-1/#comment-1001</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>and because I like to hear myself talk - (but more so that I don&#039;t forget this stuff) - Radical Orthodoxy (John Milbank) seems to be onto the same thing. From wikipedia:

The name &#039;radical orthodoxy&#039; was chosen in opposition to certain strands of so-called radical theology, for example those of Bishop John Shelby Spong. Such forms of radical theology asserted a highly liberal version of Christian faith where certain doctrines, for example, the incarnation of God in Christ and the Trinity were denied in an attempt to respond to modernity. In contrast to this, radical orthodoxy attempted to show how, in fact, the orthodox interpretation of Christian faith (as given primarily in the ecumenical creeds) was in fact the more radical response to contemporary issues, both rigorous and intellectually sustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and because I like to hear myself talk &#8211; (but more so that I don&#8217;t forget this stuff) &#8211; Radical Orthodoxy (John Milbank) seems to be onto the same thing. From wikipedia:</p>
<p>The name &#8216;radical orthodoxy&#8217; was chosen in opposition to certain strands of so-called radical theology, for example those of Bishop John Shelby Spong. Such forms of radical theology asserted a highly liberal version of Christian faith where certain doctrines, for example, the incarnation of God in Christ and the Trinity were denied in an attempt to respond to modernity. In contrast to this, radical orthodoxy attempted to show how, in fact, the orthodox interpretation of Christian faith (as given primarily in the ecumenical creeds) was in fact the more radical response to contemporary issues, both rigorous and intellectually sustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://waynepark.com/2010/04/11/depression-as-passion-easter-contd/comment-page-1/#comment-996</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynepark.com/?p=1628#comment-996</guid>
		<description>although I foresee that this approach (I guess it&#039;s termed Nouvelle Theologie) could be taken too far. I&#039;ve been hearing more and more critics of &quot;social Trinitarianism&quot; which kind of undercuts what I&#039;m saying. But I&#039;m in good company; Ross Hastings, Miroslav Volf, Jurgen Moltmann - to name a few - would probably all qualify as such. I asked one of Regent&#039;s professors about this, to which he replied, &quot;They&#039;re all wrong!&quot; Gotta love it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>although I foresee that this approach (I guess it&#8217;s termed Nouvelle Theologie) could be taken too far. I&#8217;ve been hearing more and more critics of &#8220;social Trinitarianism&#8221; which kind of undercuts what I&#8217;m saying. But I&#8217;m in good company; Ross Hastings, Miroslav Volf, Jurgen Moltmann &#8211; to name a few &#8211; would probably all qualify as such. I asked one of Regent&#8217;s professors about this, to which he replied, &#8220;They&#8217;re all wrong!&#8221; Gotta love it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://waynepark.com/2010/04/11/depression-as-passion-easter-contd/comment-page-1/#comment-995</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://waynepark.com/?p=1628#comment-995</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-992&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Anna &lt;/a&gt;, 
&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-994&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Rob &lt;/a&gt;

 Hey guys. I would totally agree on Rob&#039;s indictment of the pharmaceutical co&#039;s. And also on the existential bit. My personal experience(s) was chemically related, but that was certainly not the only thing happening there; it was an intricate web of so many things psychological, social, physiological, and definitely spiritual. In a funny way, it was a beautiful thing that happened to me.

But I feel like what you&#039;re saying Anna is perfectly the point; when we consider &quot;abnormal psychology&quot; isn&#039;t that a way of bracketing or labeling something deeply profound happening in someone? I think of Jesus&#039; encounters with the tormented, oppressed, possessed. He didn&#039;t just write them off as &quot;crazy.&quot;

That&#039;s why Balthasar hit such a nerve w/ me; he&#039;s just challenging us young scholars to tap into the theological riches out there for contemporary implications; I haven&#039;t thought deeply yet about what the passion incarnated in &lt;b&gt;us&lt;/b&gt; who suffer psychologically means... but that&#039;s a dissertation right there that I&#039;m guessing very few have tackled yet.

If we take Balth&#039;s approach, Patristic theo is applicable to a host of contemporary issues - stuff I think about like affirmative action, or psychological disorder, or the dark night of the soul, or race relations, or hierarchical ecclesiology, or missional church, ad nauseum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-992" rel="nofollow">@Anna </a>,<br />
<a href="#comment-994" rel="nofollow">@Rob </a></p>
<p> Hey guys. I would totally agree on Rob&#8217;s indictment of the pharmaceutical co&#8217;s. And also on the existential bit. My personal experience(s) was chemically related, but that was certainly not the only thing happening there; it was an intricate web of so many things psychological, social, physiological, and definitely spiritual. In a funny way, it was a beautiful thing that happened to me.</p>
<p>But I feel like what you&#8217;re saying Anna is perfectly the point; when we consider &#8220;abnormal psychology&#8221; isn&#8217;t that a way of bracketing or labeling something deeply profound happening in someone? I think of Jesus&#8217; encounters with the tormented, oppressed, possessed. He didn&#8217;t just write them off as &#8220;crazy.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why Balthasar hit such a nerve w/ me; he&#8217;s just challenging us young scholars to tap into the theological riches out there for contemporary implications; I haven&#8217;t thought deeply yet about what the passion incarnated in <b>us</b> who suffer psychologically means&#8230; but that&#8217;s a dissertation right there that I&#8217;m guessing very few have tackled yet.</p>
<p>If we take Balth&#8217;s approach, Patristic theo is applicable to a host of contemporary issues &#8211; stuff I think about like affirmative action, or psychological disorder, or the dark night of the soul, or race relations, or hierarchical ecclesiology, or missional church, ad nauseum.</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://waynepark.com/2010/04/11/depression-as-passion-easter-contd/comment-page-1/#comment-994</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-992&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Anna &lt;/a&gt; 
Anna, I think the relation between brain chemistry and circumstance, background, culture, etc (internal/external) is much more pronounced than we want to admit. It&#039;s unfortunate that saying that is not OK. There is intense social pressure to attribute depression to mere chemistry and by so doing remove its stigma. But the fact that we can&#039;t talk about non-chemical reasons for depression proves that it is still a very great stigma. Check out Comfortably Numb, a book on this. The author claims that while paralyzing depression is certainly a reality, the vast majority of what is called depression these days is existential. He claims that drug companies have made a bundle by expanding the definition of clinical depression to include just about anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-992" rel="nofollow">@Anna </a><br />
Anna, I think the relation between brain chemistry and circumstance, background, culture, etc (internal/external) is much more pronounced than we want to admit. It&#8217;s unfortunate that saying that is not OK. There is intense social pressure to attribute depression to mere chemistry and by so doing remove its stigma. But the fact that we can&#8217;t talk about non-chemical reasons for depression proves that it is still a very great stigma. Check out Comfortably Numb, a book on this. The author claims that while paralyzing depression is certainly a reality, the vast majority of what is called depression these days is existential. He claims that drug companies have made a bundle by expanding the definition of clinical depression to include just about anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://waynepark.com/2010/04/11/depression-as-passion-easter-contd/comment-page-1/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 23:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hey Wayne,
As usual, I appreciate your choice of topic as well as thoughtful approach. One thing, though, that I have always struggled with in this regard is what we do with mental illness or chemical/clinical manifestations of depression. While there is obviously a fine/blurry line between circumstantial and chemical clinical depression, on both sides of which we can clearly identify with the Passion, there is a way in which it is harder to do this with other kinds of depression, particularly that associated with illnesses like bipolar disorder/manic depression, which is so all-consuming, debilitating, dangerous and irrational, or even depression associated with OCD or schizophrenia. Should mental illness, too, be seen as a way to participate in Christ&#039;s suffering? If so, this is a difficult truth to wrap one&#039;s mind around, in terms of the exact outworking of God&#039;s sovereignty in human chemical function. Any thoughts?
A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Wayne,<br />
As usual, I appreciate your choice of topic as well as thoughtful approach. One thing, though, that I have always struggled with in this regard is what we do with mental illness or chemical/clinical manifestations of depression. While there is obviously a fine/blurry line between circumstantial and chemical clinical depression, on both sides of which we can clearly identify with the Passion, there is a way in which it is harder to do this with other kinds of depression, particularly that associated with illnesses like bipolar disorder/manic depression, which is so all-consuming, debilitating, dangerous and irrational, or even depression associated with OCD or schizophrenia. Should mental illness, too, be seen as a way to participate in Christ&#8217;s suffering? If so, this is a difficult truth to wrap one&#8217;s mind around, in terms of the exact outworking of God&#8217;s sovereignty in human chemical function. Any thoughts?<br />
A</p>
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